I got this email from a woman last week. How would you respond to this?
To whom it may concern,
I believe all that you all believe. I love Jesus with all my heart and really try with all my actions. I have come back to Christ within the past year as I felt wholly accepted as I am, lesbian. What is your community’s stance? Do you take the Bible literally? Do you have intelligent faith?
I am seeking a Christian community such as yours but cannot even consider it if you are not open and affirming to the LGBT community.
Tom Smith said...
1With an appointment for coffee?
09/17/09 8:33 AM | Comment Link
Mark said...
2I think I would try to respond with the difference between open and affirming. My guess is that you guys are open to her entering in, but are not looking to affirm the LGBT community lifestyle. The difficulty in this situation is even a well articulated response of that nature will often read as closed to those holding that worldview. In large part we (the church) have begun to articulate the difference between being open and affirming, but we still struggle with execution. I’ll be praying for you bro.
09/17/09 8:40 AM | Comment Link
Ben Sternke said...
3I got an email very similar to this a few years ago. I’m not sure if my response was very good or not. I wrote something along the lines that while we welcome all who want to take steps toward Christ, we do place homosexual practice in the category of “sin” (along with many other things that many in our congregation struggle with), but she was welcome to join us in our journey. I never heard back.
I’m not sure what I might do differently this time around, since she is setting up some terms before she will even consider coming to a gathering. Some of the questions in your email are pretty loaded. Sounds as if she is pitting “taking the Bible literally” against “intelligent faith” and equating “intelligent faith” with affirming the LGBT community (implying an affirmation of homosexual practice as acceptable and good for Christians).
The issues is so clouded, though, because of the abuse many LGBT people have received over the years at the hands of Christians. But if the front-loaded issue is “do you affirm this way of life?” I think you have to be honest. But perhaps if you’re also compassionate it could plant a seed.
09/17/09 9:26 AM | Comment Link
Dan Bryan said...
4A good friend of mine, Andrew Marin, has lived in this exact tension for about the last decade. I know it seems to cheap to just link to someone else, but he’s got much more helpful things to say than I do. Most specifically JR I think you should consider his thoughts on the difference between validation and affirmation, hope this helps:
http://www.loveisanorientation.com/2009/practical-applications-for-validation-vs-affirmation/
If any of you haven’t read his book, I highly recommend it as well. It’s stretched me in some great and uncomfortable ways.
09/17/09 9:48 AM | Comment Link
Kendall said...
5The tough thing here is, as Ben said, the abuse the LGBT community has received from the Christian community. This is an issue that God has placed very strongly on my heart, and, to be honest, I am still trying to learn the best way to express my feelings. I think its important to let her know you won’t be affirming the LGBT lifestyle from the pulpit, however, that does not mean in any way that she won’t find herself accepted and loved there.
09/17/09 9:53 AM | Comment Link
Jeremy said...
6JR, I concur with what’s been said. The unloving response would be to affirm here behavior choices or somehow ‘bait and switch’ her into attendance. At the same time, you will be unable to give ‘the right answer.’ So, it seems you’d better give the Biblical one, framed in the mode of Christ as articulated in John 1:14, full of grace and truth – both and all at the same time.
That said, it is a very real possibility the LGBT community is tryingto set you up for a discrimination claim. You may want to consider what your church constitution says about this issue, if anything. And, you’ll want to consider what your state and local laws say. That should never keep you from speaking Biblical truth (graciously), but you ought to be aware of the impact that will have. I deal in this area in the law and would be pleased to pass some wisdom to you and/or connect you with experts more experienced than I.
Good courage!
09/17/09 10:00 AM | Comment Link
J.R. Briggs said...
7Good, thoughtful responses thus far. Thanks.
I’d love to hear a few responses from those outside of organized religion.
Dan: thanks for the link to your friend’s site.
09/17/09 10:10 AM | Comment Link
john chandler said...
8JR,
Nothing to add to the thoughtful comments above, but Dan mentions Andrew Marin above. I think his book is helpful and a good example of what dialogue between the church and the LGBT community should look like.
John
09/17/09 10:15 AM | Comment Link
Gordon said...
9I am two chapters into Brennan Manning’s “The Ragamuffin Gospel” and he has such an incredible stance on the overwhelming Grace and Love of God. One of the most striking statements he makes is that we cannot reject the people the Jesus Christ accepted. As said above, the issue becomes what does it mean to ‘accept’ someone. If we take the Bible literally and have intelligent faith, I think we have to see Christ welcoming all kinds of people (even honest pharisees as evidenced by Nicodemus) as they are, letting them see the love and grace of God evidenced in His life and then encouraging them to drink from the living water instead of wallowing around in their own self-made puddles. This is not specific to one “type” of lifetstyle, person or sin. We are all in the same boat.
The questions then becomes, when do we expect someone to take this step from being acceptance to life change brought about by Christ’s gospel of grace? It can only happen after they have encountered Christ and the love and grace we all desperately need. I think as far as what your communities’ stance is, knowing you, I know that you welcome anyone where they’re at to explore Christ more, being open to the LGBT community and affirming them as people while not necessarily affirming their lifestyle. If you can get that across, hopefully she will be able to join your community and see a real display of the love of Christ.
Perhaps I have become more passionate about this since my best friend came out to me a year ago or as I interact with other friends who struggle with homosexual temptations but decided not to live it as a lifestyle. I think the bottom line is that they need to be loved where they’re at (as we all do) and we need to trust that Christ changes hearts, not us. Can we as the body of Christ love the wounds from abuse out of people, regardless of how they were received and what they’ve driven them to do? For my sake and my own struggles, I sure hope so.
09/17/09 12:10 PM | Comment Link
Karen said...
10I occasionally wonder what God would like us to do in this situation. I am torn between the reality of a 50+ year relationship of two male co-workers which recently ended by the death of one partner and the complete inappropriateness of this type of relationship in the Bible. The woman who wrote the letter says she is wholly accepted by God. I am accepted by God and am sorrowful over the many sins I commit that grieve Him, yet I continue to commit many of those same sins on a daily basis. Is she saying that despite her sin she is accepted by God’s grace? Or is she saying that He is accepting of her homosexuality?
When someone is lazy, greedy, prideful, addicted, etc., it is not so obvious and we do not wear those sins on our sleeves. If we all had to wear signs indicating our sin so the world could see, how many of us would be welcomed in our churches? Factually, how many of us would go outside? How many of us would not be judged? We would probably become pretty militant about it. I think the key point here is, does the individual realize that a gay lifestyle is a sin in God’s eyes? I am not judging that person and I am very sorry to admit that I have committed grave sins. But, do we leave those that are gay, that hunger for God’s Word, out of the congregation because their sin is possibly more open for the world to see? Do we have them hide their sexual preference because we are able to hide our sins so we are not judged?
I hid the fact that I lived with a man before I married him by not regularly attending a church or getting involved in one. I did not want to be judged for the sin I was committing that I had no intention of stopping, so I stayed estranged from Christians out of fear of judgement and tried to “hide” from God out of guilt. When we married, I joined the church, became a weekly volunteer, and attended a weekly Bible study (trying to make up for lost time!) I waited until everything was, ahem, “right” before I joined a church. You are never “right” and Christians should be welcoming of all who come……that should be a sign on the door. I remember the first church I investigated after we married. I looked around the room at all those clean people who looked like they had never sinned in their lives and had all been brought up in amazing Christian homes, and thought I would never fit in there. I would never be able to be honest with people about my past. I ended up at another church by an invitation from a co-worker that I ended up joining. Odd that the original church I checked out was rocked by the admission of the pastor that he had had an affair with a woman in the choir.
I guess the bottom line is, does the person want to attend a church to worship and serve God, and be fed by His glory with other believers? Or does the person want to have their gay lifestyle accepted so they feel comfortable? In my situation as described above, I wanted people to accept me and not judge me by my lifestyle. I should have put God before people. I didn’t ever expect anyone to promote it as right and I didn’t want or need anyone to tell me it was wrong. I already knew it was wrong. And, I missed so much by not being in church with other believers.
I don’t mean for this to be inflammatory in any way….I have struggled with this idea of the gay community and Christianity and am somewhat conflicted about it. There are many opinions out there.
JR– don’t print this unless you feel it’s helpful or compelling in some way.
09/17/09 8:10 PM | Comment Link
J.R. Briggs said...
11Karen – your thoughts are insightful and helpful for the conversation, which is why I printed your comments. Thanks for taking the time to give input to this important topic.
09/17/09 8:52 PM | Comment Link
None said...
12Here is a blog written by a Christian woman who struggles with same-sex attraction: http://pursuegod.wordpress.com/. She writes (and I believe speaks) quite frequently on the topic of Christianity and homosexuality. She uses her powerful testimony to address the question of how far we will go to pursue God (see the May 12, 2007, entry).
And while I couldn’t possibly begin to help you write a response, I have the utmost faith that your words will bring only glory to God. When you were in Colorado Springs, the door was opened for us to get involved with a homeless shelter because you did what Jesus told you to do and talked to a lesbian couple. There is no telling how many people have been blessed through that one interaction, and I don’t mean the people who lived at the shelter.
I’ll be praying for you, and I have the utmost faith that God will work wonders through your words.
09/18/09 1:19 AM | Comment Link
Tom said...
13J.R. -
Wow! Can’t you hand this off to Tracy or something?
Seriously, this is such a charged issue. I know you realize the gravity of it or you wouldn’t have sought counsel from your peers. Almost anything you say by email or letter has the potential to be misconstrued. And in this case, perhaps more than any other, I don’t think you can afford to have your words misconstrued. If the medium really is the message, and I do believe it is, then I think the way forward involves human interaction. So I’d invite her over for dinner or out for coffee and engage in conversation. And hopefully a dialogue will ensue that expresses God’s heart for her and your heart for her as it relates to Renew.
Keep us in the loop on this. We can all learn vicariously through what you say and do.
Tom
09/18/09 1:38 PM | Comment Link
Andy said...
14JR
I have been thinking a lot about your post recently. And I understand the complexity of this situation. It’s charged and potnentially explosive in many evangelical circles, but I keep circling back to this: God loves us all, and He gave His only Son for us after that same Son cavorted with a bunch of drunks, thieves, charlatans, and probably even some homosexuals. And I know this person who God loves is asking so much more than “can I come to your church?” however, the take-home message must be essentially that, “we love everyone Jesus loves, mainly sinners.” so can you get away without answering all those implict questions? I’d rake Jesus’ tact and ask questions when “cornered.” does this make sense? I’m no pastor or even a theologian, but I was moved by the clear yearning for God your post and the email both display.
Much grace & peace!
09/19/09 10:53 AM | Comment Link
Jerry Borton said...
15Random thoughts–
All of us come to Jesus broken.
All are equal in His sight.
All of us must be willing to change–even with the things or ideas we hold most dear.
His love never changes.
09/20/09 5:28 PM | Comment Link
kate oates said...
16JR,
Thanks for being open to comments on this subject.
My husband and I attend the Mennonite Fellowship of Bloomington and we recently had an open discussion on homosexuality with our congregation. One person brought up a good point. She said that she can understand a church community who is not affirming to the LGBT community and clearly makes that known through their church theology. She said she also understands a church community that is affirming to the LGBT community and welcomes all into full membership. However, she went on to say that a church that tows the middle line, welcoming the LGBT community into their congregation but believes that being LGBT is a sin does not make logical sense to her. Who would feel welcome and accepted if they knew that ultimately, the church community was not going to allow them membership or support them in a committed relationship?
By posing this question for comments, I’m assuming that your church in not an affirming church to the LGBT community. If that is the case, the woman needs to be told that up front, preferably face to face. I think it would be more harmful to her to be invited to your church, but then find that information out later. I think in addition, it would be kind of you to tell her of congregations in your area that are affirming to the LGBT community.
Now, you did ask, “How would you respond to this?” I would tell her that our congregation is an open, welcoming, and affirming church. We believe that God’s spirit calls us to embrace diversity fully in our congregation and community and to affirm the dignity and worth of every person without regard to race, sex, gender, age, sexual orientation, faith, nationality, ethnicity, economic or marital status, or physical, mental, or emotional disability. We are guided by the spirit of Jesus, who reached out to each and everyone, just as he did when he encountered the Samaritan woman at the well (John 4:4-26). Far from avoiding contact, as an “upright” rabbi of the time would have been expected to do, Jesus offered her, and everyone else, regardless of condition, the water of eternal life. We believe, as Paul affirmed in Galatians 3:28, “There is no longer Jew or Greek, there is no longer slave or free, there is no longer male and female, for all of you are one in Christ Jesus.” Now we acknowledge the history of institutional condemnation and exclusion of gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgender, and intersex persons and are committed to work to end such discrimination. We welcome all into full membership and participation as children of God, and we affirm and celebrate all loving, committed relationships.
Once again, thank you for being willing to bring this to the table for conversation.
09/20/09 8:43 PM | Comment Link
Alan Briggs said...
17Bro-
If this is your first message like this it won’t be the last. Here’s what I know from this small email…
- She is hurt
- She is searching for a community. Diversity is okay with her as long as that diversity doesn’t disagree with her lifestyle.
- If you disagree with LGBT lifestyle she will belive you are one more ignorant Christian, community, pastor.
- She is honest from the start because she wants not only love but acceptance/affirmation.
What I can’t tell from this email…
- Her reaction to a face-to-face with you and Meg
- Her heart to “belong” vs. to feel “acceptance” (I believe they are slightly different things)
- How she has been hurt in the past
- What kind of honest conversational/relational engagement others within the Church have had with her in the past.
So…that’s what we know. Pray for her and seek others for how to engage in honest and loving conversation.
Good luck bro! Al
09/20/09 8:43 PM | Comment Link
Kevin F said...
18I’m going to be very forward and just share that I have had a deep addiction to pornography that I have not been willing to deal with for years. There may even be a community for that, I don’t know. I know that this issue is not accepted by any churches. Many in the church I have been part of of know about it. They love me for the person I am, not by the sin I may or may not commit. They do pray for me and hope this changes but at the same time have never treated me like an outcast. They have seen me as a hurting human being who does not wish to remain in my sin but feels powerless to overcome it. Are people in the LGBT community human beings? Yup. Are they possibly dealing with life issues of all sorts and most likely have hidden wounds? I say yes again. Not affirming the LGBT I think is the correct thing to do. Totally accepting the person where they are right now IS the right thing to do. I mean there was not a sin questionnaire that I had to fill out to begin attending Renew. If there was would the people in my house church have accepted me differently? I would say no. If there had been such a person then the rest of the house church would have had a chat with that person. Even after they had found out about my addiction to pornography I was not shunned into silence or sent out from the house church, on the contrary, they began to pray for me.
Every person should be accepted (Open) otherwise we are not doing what Jesus would have.
On the other hand Jesus didn’t go up to people and say – “Wow man I really like the way you sin.” He said funny things like – “go and sin no more” to a prostitute.
So accepting (Open) the person is NEVER out of step with not affirming sinful behavior.
I guess I would simply fail on the affirming part. Why is that wrong? Where would Jesus fall then? Would he not have been told he does not have intelligent faith? So I guess Jesus has ignorant faith. Maybe I am taking this way too personal but that email was seemingly meant to insult, manipulate or both.
I hope this came out as some coherent thoughts and not the ramblings of a wild man. OK so that was more than two cents, maybe it was twenty five.
09/22/09 12:27 AM | Comment Link
dustin smucker said...
19The previous comment crystallized the discrepancy in perspectives. One perspective, that which says that the gay person should overcome their sin, believes that homosexuality is not part of the person’s genetic makeup. The other perspective believes that one’s genetic makeup determines their sexual preference and therefore cannot claim that homosexuality is a sin.
My belief is that pornographic addiction is a sin because a person is not genetically determined to view porn. Therefore it is right to fight that sin. And I also believe that one’s sexuality, whether gay or hetero, is a genetic predisposition.
It is unfair of church goers to claim to accept gays while believing that that person needs to quit being gay. It is insulting to the individual and no matter how welcoming our jargon can be, this belief system will never actually attract gays to attend our churches. Why would a gay person want to be a part of that community? So to those who are writing churches’ public statements of faith, please be honest and up-front with this issue rather than acting open and welcoming, but are in reality completely un-affirming.
Thanks for reading and for your contributions to the dialogue,
Dustin
09/22/09 5:46 PM | Comment Link
Kevin F said...
20That assumes that the whole set of studies done on this are fair and impartial and have not been biased by anyone else’s agenda. Let’s face it, who is to say that some day my addiction to pornography is found to be because my genetic makeup and my predisposition is to acting that way. Does that then mean automatically that something is not a sin because I have a predisposition towards it? I don’t subscribe to telling a whole group of people anywhere “Sorry no help for you no matter what you claim to believe because it is in your genetic makeup. You are stuck the way you are even if you want to change. Alcoholic, sorry its in your genes, don’t fight it even though it may be wrong and/or kill you.”
Determining that something is a sin or not as far as I knew up until now had nothing whatsoever to do with a scientist telling me about it but the Lord and Creator of the universe in His Word known as the Scriptures. He set out some pretty clear cut laws which determined what was considered sin.
Jesus said to “Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’ The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’There is no commandment greater than these.”(Mark 12:30-31) That does not put a condition on loving only non homosexuals. On the contrary it is to love everyone. Turning to the other hand though God never tells me to love something that His word does not love – the sin of homosexuality. Love the person but not the sin. ACCEPT the person but don’t pat them on the back and say “go on and sin all you like son.” I don’t think I can add any more to that.
09/22/09 10:50 PM | Comment Link
Shannon said...
21I am a lesbian woman who left the catholic church for Christian traditions that Affirm an LGBT life as whole and equal to heterosexuality. That is what this woman is looking for.
Be polite. Be honest – tell her your Church is open but not affirming of an lgbt life. Be compassionate – wish her well.
I think it is patronizing to respond in a way that tries to Change her mind. She believes in a Christian god that supports same sex relationships, as many of us do. Agree to disagree and move on.
You can suggest she look for a metropolitan community church (mcc) in her area. That is a Christian denomination that specifically affirms lbgt people.
09/27/09 5:21 PM | Comment Link
Art Leman said...
22I would invite her to Renew, or at least the Renew website, and then ask her to answer her own questions after attending or being involved with the church. I think she is the only one who can answer her own questions best. Further, if she did attend or get involved, it would be great to know her what her answers would be.
10/3/09 9:34 AM | Comment Link